Sjaman.com – Forumarkiv

"Masha":

"Social emotions like guilt, SHAME, pride, embarrassment, disgust and the like are based on a uniquely human mirror neuron system found in a part of the brain called the insula, Dr. Keysers said.

Det er vel derfor vi blir "insulted"? Fornærmet?

In a study not yet published, he found that when people watched a hand go forward to caress someone and then saw another hand push it away rudely, the insula registered the social pain of rejection. Humiliation appears to be mapped in the brain by the same mechanisms that encode real physical pain, he said."

Vet du om det er forskjell på hvordan såkalt 'følsomme', eller 'overfølsomme' mennesker, og andre, såkalt 'vanlige' mennesker reagerer?

Aina, det hadde vært artig med en kobling mellom ordene "insula" og "insult"!

Ifølge min kloke etymologiske ordbok har det latinske insula sine røtter fra det greske "en salo" = omgitt av salt, et stykke land omgitt av det saltholdige havet.

En "insult" kan jo frembringe salte tårer, eller den kan "isolere" deg sosialt - ihvertfall i en kultur der en fornærmelse knyttes opp til tap av ansikt/ære. Men det siste her er ren og skjær spekulasjon....

Til det andre spørsmålet ditt:

Keysers sier følgende i samme artikel:

"People  who rank high on a scale measuring empathy have particularly active mirror neurons systems."
Kilden til teksten er forresten New York Times.

Jeg har også lest andre steder at følsomme mennesker mest sannsynligvis har et høyt utviklet eller aktivt system av speilneuroner.

"Masha":

Aina, det hadde vært artig med en kobling mellom ordene "insula" og "insult"! Ifølge min kloke etymologiske ordbok har det latinske insula sine røtter fra det greske "en salo" = omgitt av salt, et stykke land omgitt av det saltholdige havet. En "insult" kan jo frembringe salte tårer, eller den kan "isolere" deg sosialt - ihvertfall i en kultur der en fornærmelse knyttes opp til tap av ansikt/ære. Men det siste her er ren og skjær spekulasjon....

Spekulasjon er moromt!  :  Takk for ordbokens tolkning. Noen kan føle seg plassert alene på en øde øy, utenfor rekkevidde av alle de andre på fastlandet, omringet av haier når man blir fornærmet i all offentlighet. Andre ønsker deg av og til til en øde øy når det blir for mange mennesker omkring... kanskje for å få kontakt med seg selv igjen, sin stolthet? Spekulasjon kan lede til fantastiske fortellinger langt fra utgangspunktet så jeg stopper her.

"... based on a uniquely human mirror neuron system found in a part of the brain called the insula" ssier Dr. Keysers. Betyr det at de ikke har funnet dette hos dyr? Det er i så fall ennå en interessant forskjell.

Til det andre spørsmålet ditt:  Keysers sier følgende i samme artikel: "People  who rank high on a scale measuring empathy have particularly active mirror neurons systems." Kilden til teksten er forresten New York Times.
Jeg har også lest andre steder at følsomme mennesker mest sannsynligvis har et høyt utviklet eller aktivt system av speilneuroner.

Det tror jeg på. Føler det på meg, så og si 
Jeg må visste lære meg mer om disse speilnevronene. Jeg så at det finnes mer tekst om det i sonen, skal oppdatere meg litt der. Takk.

IMO

Love and Hate are principles. Love is that which draws things together and/or holds them together. Its opposite is hate, that which causes things to move away and/or stay away from one another. Love and Hate are neither good nor bad. Both of these principles will be found in anything that exists. For me Karlsons klister is just as much an expression of love as anything else one might care to mention.

Protons neutrons and electrons together form an atom, an element. Their cooperation is love in action. These particles, even though they are close and operate as a unit, maintain a certain distance from each other. That is hate. It is the combination of attraction and repulsion that makes the magic. A black hole is an example of love on steroids and a supernova is an example of hate getting it on.

In our solar system the planets orbit the sun. Their speed of motion away from the sun coupled with the gravitational pull of that star results in the planets orbiting around it. Forces working to unite and forces working to separate together caused a solar system.

In the sphere of human relations Love and Hate operate in a "similar" way.


Wang Fu-chih, Chuan-shan i-shu, 1619-1692
At bottom, principle is not a finished product that can be grasped. It is invisible. The details and order of material force is a principle that is visible. Therefore, the first time there is any principle is when it is seen in material force. After principles have thus been found, they of course appear to become tendencies.

Villbjørn Ulvberg

IMO

Sometimes Evil is better than Good.

Villbjørn once asked a priest, which, if any, of the following two people would have a chance of going to heaven. One has lived the life of a criminal, a thief, murderer and rapist but she believes in God. The other has lived an ethical productive life and never harmed anyone but does not believe in God. Guess which one the priest said had a chance of getting into heaven and which one didn't


Sometimes Good is really Evil.

Villbjørn has also spoken to many devout Christians who have remained adamant that even though a shaman or healer from one of the many pagan religions may heal and "seemingly" help a sick person, relieve suffering, it is still Evil. That shaman/healer is doing the patient wrong because she is in cahoots with spirits and all spirits are Evil. All religions except for Christianity are Evil and in fact all versions of Christianity except their own particular brand are devices created by Satan to mislead the foolish and thus also Evil.

So even though the result of the healing looks like a good thing, smells like a good thing, tastes like a good thing, feels like a good thing, it is not. It is a bad thing. You are being fooled. So one should look away from the obvious good effects. This is the Devil's trickery. Even if they live in ecstatic joy for the rest of their lives after a healing its a bad thing because it did not come from God and therefore cannot be Good. It must be Evil.


Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions.

It is quite common to unconditionally consider Love as Good and Hate as Evil. That kind of absolutism allowed the worst scum on earth to rape, pillage, plunder, mass murder and enslave and not only be convinced but also to convince their victims that they were doing a good thing and that they should be grateful. This was because they were civilizing the savages, bringing God to the Godless. God is Good, God is Love and anything his servants do on behalf of God is Good, an act of Love. It doesn't matter what.


REJOICE! when shit happeneth unto thee which is doneth by us for it be'eth a Good thing.

Even though the claims used to "justify" attacking Iraq have now been disproved, e.g. there were no weapons of mass destruction there, Bush and Blair say that even so they were still right in doing what they did. You see, Saddam was Evil and it is always Good to attack Evil. There was no democracy there. The country was run by a dictator. As we all know, dictatorships are Evil.

Now, according to journalist reports on both Norwegian and Swedish TV over the last year or so, it transpires that the forces of Good did and are doing all the same things to the people of Iraq that the forces of Evil did. They are killing and torturing men, women and children. They are even using the same jails and the same professional torturers that Saddam used but now what is being done is a Good thing. The reason is that they are liberating the people and bringing them democracy. Liberty and democracy, as we all know, are Good things. So it stands to reason that all the murder, rape, torture and general destruction are Good.


May we accept the things we cannot change, change the things we can and know the difference between the two.

Villbjørn has two ways of interpreting the world. One is through a system with concepts based on a spirit world. The other presents existence in terms of energy. As a result of this he sees illness as an energy problem, the result of blockages or short circuiting in the energy's paths or malfunction in the production/reception leading to too much or too strong, too little or too weak, complete loss or the intrusion of energy that does not belong there. The energy itself is not bad it is the imbalance of forces that causes problems in the machine or entity, whether it be a human body or an organization.

By the same token Hate or Love can have desirable or undesirable effects depending on how they are employed and for what reason. We have both thoughts and feeling one is not better than the other. We need both. We have the capacity to both Love and Hate. One is not better than the other. We need both. Singling out a particular emotion or faculty and demonizing it does not help. Finding the best way to employ them does.

Villbjørn Ulvberg.

Kloke ord! 

(men hva er "IMO"?  )

IMO stands for "In My Opinion"

hat: en personelig opplevelse.

det var en dag jeg la meg på sofan,var sindt uten grunn,sa ifra til min samboer ta deg en tur på hytta ønsker ingen krig her, skjønte det var noe på gang i meg selv som ikke dreide seg om andre,har aldri følt hat før denne dagen det var så sterkt, for en følelse,umulig å sette de riktige ord på det,det bygde seg opp i flere timer,bare lå der helt til det kom en tanke du hater deg selv,alt slapp som denne dagen ikke hadde eksistert bortsett fra min plante husefreden som jeg var så glad i 2 år gammel døde samtidig,når man prøver å gjøre det beste man kan for alt å alle å plusselig hater seg selv,kan man begynne å lure hva skjer,en tanke slo meg hvordan kan man elske når man ikke vet hva hat er.etter dette har jeg tatt en dag av gangen jobber med å bli glad i meg selv.
for meg har dette vert en god lærdom,samboeren min fikk sympatifisk han var lykkelig å alt er bra igjen
det åpnet seg en ny dør for meg,jeg har ved flere anledninger sett mennesker stå å prate til meg som er i samme rom det eneste er at de har aldri har sagt det,det er tankene deres flere bekreftelser på dette,men jeg ser hva de tenker litt vanskelig når det er så virkelig for meg ingen varsel ser de prater ,mitt største ønske er å få en bekreftelse i meg selv så jeg vet hva som er hva er glad for tilbakemellinger fra de som har opplevd noe av det samme eller ønsker å utale seg klem bast