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The Random Soul Theory is based on the fact that each person is given his soul randomly by God, the spirits and the energies in the universe.

A soul is therefore not inherited by once parents like the genes are.

Peace and love.

What do you consider the most important,the soul or the genes?

And in the random soul theory,do karma exists there or can you come back as a fish-bate, even if you did everything right in this life?

Hi there FT,

I consider the soul more important than the genes and I do not believe in reincarnation or karma.

Peace and love to you.

So God plays dice?

No, God, the spirits and the energies in the universe randomly give souls to bodys.

Peace and love.

Hi there pachamama,

I dont believe God, the spirits and the energies use dices, however, if I understand you correctly you have understood the concept of randomness.

To be able to bring total randomness in to your statement you need an infinite number of dices with infinite amunt of numbers on them.

Peace and love.

Ok, I'll skip commenting on your last post, not sure what you wanted to convey.

But as to your 'Random Soul Theory', here's what I gathered:

1. Your soul is randomly given to your body by God, the spirits and the energies of the universe. (Premise)
C. Therefore the soul is not inherited from your parents like genes are. (Conclusion)

First of all, this is not a proper argument. The premises (yes, you need more than one) need to be related to eachother for an argument to be valid. If you have only one premise before the conclusion, then the statement is vacuous - you can say anything and make it seem as if it is true, just like politicians do most of the time. These quasi-arguments are called enthymemes.

What you need to do, is to define the special concepts you make use of:
Soul, God, Spirit, Energy, Reincarnation.

After having done that, you need to fit it all together into a coherent cluster of ideas/statements and a conclusion, from which it is evident to anyone who reads it that if the premises seen as a whole are true, then your conclusion (i.e. thesis) must be true.

From what you have written, I am expected to agree with you, without further justification, that it is "a fact" that "God gives out souls randomly".

Sorry, you really need to work out this whim some more, before it can be considered a theory.

After having studied radomness for many years it seems very simple for me to understand this theory, which you seem to have done.

Maybe you have a more knowledge than me in defining this theory, I would very much appreciate your explanation of this theory since you have understood it.

Thanks in advance.

Peace and love to you.

Hi again pachamama,

Based on my observations in life I have found that each soul (which I have allready defined) is unique and can therefore not be inherited like the genes. However, a parent can influence a childs soul through education and the transfer of knowledge. A parents experiences are very difficult to pass on. I believe each soul experience and learn different things even though they have been through the same situation.

Im interested in your opinion on this statement.

Peace and love.

Ps. I do not believe in reincarnation, I leave this belief to the hindus and buddhists.

Genes are also individual.

There are no persons with exactly the same set of genes.

In my thinking there is no dice.
We all live in the wirlwind of the force (and you are not a jedi yet) and we cling to things we find common and familiar in search of our next incarnation.
The plan is the plan, the man becomes the man.
I don't agree with this randomness

I agree with you H,

There is alot of randomness in the world which is unknown to the human mind and soul.

Many parents will however do not agree with us.

Peace and love.

Based on my observations in life I have found that each soul (which I have allready defined) is unique and can therefore not be inherited like the genes. However, a parent can influence a childs soul through education and the transfer of knowledge. A parents experiences are very difficult to pass on. I believe each soul experience and learn different things even though they have been through the same situation.

I recognise your perspective, but myself... I cannot yet comprehend the concept of the soul. To me these matters are not about beliefs, or believing in, but about gnosis. And that is not easily achieved.

Ps. I do not believe in reincarnation, I leave this belief to the hindus and buddhists.

That is perfectly fine. Personally I can see a certain value in the expression of compassion resulting from the belief in reincarnation, and ultimately the evolution of the soul.

"Vakker Forvandling":



Ps. I do not believe in reincarnation, I leave this belief to the hindus and buddhists.

Så hvor kommer da sjelen fra?

Hi there,

The soul comes from God, the spirits and the energies in the universe and when we physically dies return there. Please see my comments under the title soul in the forum. I do not believe in reincarnation, where one can be re-borne into another body or animal, like the hindus and buddhist do.

I do believe its possible to get in touch with dead souls and spirits through soul travelling.

I do believe its possible to get a new soul, which I once experienced.

Wikipedia defines gnosis as follow:

"Gnosis är grekiska och betyder kunskap. Begreppet används mest i teologi och i synnerhet som ett begrepp inom gnosticismen.

Den gnostiska filosofin tar många vägar då målet är att upptäcka och väcka sin egen andlighet, men flertalet tänkare har resonerat så här när det gäller dualistisk gnosticism:

Det finns en Himmelsk Helig Värld som få av oss ens kan skönja och en Högsta Gudomlighet som själv är denna Andliga Helighet. Dess motsats är den materiella världen här och nu, där miljarder människosjälar lever som "fångar" i sina kroppar och är vilse i ett slags Skymningslandets labyrint utan att finna vägen ut.

Men vi bär alla inom oss ett Heligt Ljus, vi kan för enkelhetens skull kalla det själ, som är våra verkliga jag och som har ett Himmelskt ursprung. Detta Ljus ”gudsgnistan”, som en gång utgått från den Högsta Gudomlighetens överflöd av godhet, har dock blivit fjättrat i kroppen och riskerar hela tiden att besudlas av materien. Målet för var och en av oss är att befria våra Andliga jag och därigenom kunna uppstiga till det Himmelska ursprunget. Detta kan ske genom att en människa väcks till insikt (gnosis) om sin egen situation och om den Högsta Gudomlighet hon emanerat från."

One have to believe in the soul in order to be a shaman. I know many souls who do not do this and we call them atheists.

I was myself born with a soul which I believe everybody are whether they believe it or not.

If you dont believe in the soul I dont understand what you are doing in a shamanic forum.

It would be interesting to know what you believe in pachamama. Could you please inform of what kind of faith you have.

Peace and love.

Virker det som om jeg ikke tror på sjel?

Sjelen er fin den

We can discuss theories about theories untill we become blue in face,but still there is not a definite answer to be found.
My body is worn.In this life.
My mind is a bit messed up and mixed.I try to recall.And forget.
But my soul is older. :innocent2:
I just hope for the day it can be "proven" by science ,priests or someone else.
It would do us good.

(ps. I am not a hindu freek )

But maybe is this angle also a part of the randomness? Who knows? I do not. 

I know you believe in the soul H, I was commenting on pachamamas questions.

I also believe you can be born with an old soul with a lot of wisdom FT.

Peace and love.

Hvordan kan man bli født med en gammel sjel uten reinkarnasjon?

To better describe what I mean with an old soul is to say that you are born with a more open soul which understand more and carry more wisdom.

When I talk about an old soul I talk symbolically.

Peace and love.

det er vanskelig å svare en som skriver innenfor egen symbolikk

spesielt for oss som legger andre begreper innenfor de samme symbolene

Gamle sjeler for meg har levd mange liv.
Og jeg har følt mitt gamle liv i meg, på en transereise. så det tror jeg på

"Vakker Forvandling":

To better describe what I mean with an old soul is to say that you are born with a more open soul which understand more and carry more wisdom.

When I talk about an old soul I talk symbolically.

Peace and love.

I talk about it non-symbolically.
I also think souls often need time or help to re-open.(by whom?)
And at last,I do not feel that an old soul necessary means that it is very wise or very good.
Just experienced randomly.

(but here is an quiz for the believers:http://tests.matchdoctor.com/682/Are_you_an_Old_Soul.html)

How do you then explain that somebody has an old soul, do you as H also believe like the hindus and buddhists in reincarnation?

Peace and love to you FT.

I will have to quote myself:

I recognise your perspective, but myself... I cannot yet comprehend the concept of the soul. To me these matters are not about beliefs, or believing in, but about gnosis. And that is not easily achieved.

The term 'gnosis' is not necessarily tied to "the gnostic movement" within Christianity.

Now, how do you interpret the above as stating that I do not believe in a soul? The problem here seems to be that we have a different understanding on what 'belief' is. That is why i chose the term 'gnosis' instead, since it is more often used to indicate knowledge acquired extra-linguistically. Beliefs are propositional of nature, and as such, they are subject to confusion. In an altered state of gnosis where knowledge is obtained non-conceptually, there are no beliefs (i.e.  statements to which one can assent or dissent) involved in the experience of acquiring this knowledge.

Now, to clarify what I actually am saying: I have not yet experienced my soul clearly, I am in the process of searching still. Perhaps I will ever be. But that does not stop me from keeping on searching, or should it? In any case, I neither assent or dissent the "belief in a soul", I simply refrain from assenting/dissenting.

If you dont believe in the soul I dont understand what you are doing in a shamanic forum.
It would be interesting to know what you believe in pachamama.

I try not to believe so much.

By the way, are you indicating that if I weren't into 'shamanism', then I should not have entered this forum? Why such a separating attitude? Why not go for unity?

Hvordan ble jeg satt i bås med buddister og hinduister......

Fordi jeg tror på reinkarnasjon?

Eller reink som de nord-amerikanske natives?

"Vakker Forvandling":

How do you then explain that somebody has an old soul, do you as H also believe like the hindus and buddhists in reincarnation?

Peace and love to you FT.

I feel the souls enter brand new bodies(creatures) and leave them at physical death.Apperantly random..
An old soul is a soul with quite diverce experiences.Some good,some not so good.
For me its a calaidoscope as I often say,and the challenge is to add new fragments and see a pattern,a beauty and a plan in one glimpse.
Sometimes it happens.
If i am a Hindu or a Buddhist by thinking so, it must have been the plan before I entered this body.